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Author Topic: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.  (Read 863 times)

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coffejohn

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Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« on: October 07, 2017, 15:03 »
If money makes the world go around what do`s it`s misuse do?

Si l'argent fait tourner le monde, qu'est-ce que c'est abusif, faites-vous?

Wenn Geld die Welt umgehen lässt, was tun sie?

Se il denaro fa il mondo andare intorno a quello che fa `s abuso?


Money is, according to many, but not all;

Quote
Anything of value that serves as a (1) generally accepted medium of financial exchange, (2) legal tender for repayment of debt, (3) standard of value, (4) unit of accounting measure, and (5) means to save or store purchasing power..


Finance: The History of Money

From; OpenLearn from The Open University


But what if money is misused?


Money: The Greatest Scam In History - What Is Money?

Quote
Money -The Greatest Scam In History - What Is Money? Money As Debt, documentary "Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." - Woodrow Wilson, former President of the United States. "Each and every time a bank makes a loan, new bank credit is created - new deposits - brand new money." - Graham F. Towers Commercial Banks create money in the form of demand deposits, when they make loans to households or companies. When a bank makes a loan, a deposit is created at the same time in the borrower's bank account. In that way, new money is created as a bookkeeping entry, with the loan representing an asset and the deposit a liability on the bank's balance sheet. The Bank of England explains this process: "In the modern economy, most money takes the form of bank deposits. But how those bank deposits are created is often misunderstood: the principal way is through commercial banks making loans. Whenever a bank makes a loan, it simultaneously creates a matching deposit in the borrower’s bank account, thereby creating new money."


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selber

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 09:42 »
@coffejohn
The bad thing is the banks have the right to make money . If a bank wants to give 10,000 euro loan , the bank deposited 100 euros at the ECB , and the money comes from the ECB . Bad loans are at the expense of the ECB . National central banks are controlled because it is the interest of the nation . The ECB is not controlled because it is not in the interest of the nations . The community consists of nations , but the nations have no common ground . The interest of the nations is to bring a lot of money into the country.

coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 21:00 »
How the rich get richer – money in the world economy | DW Documentary




Quote
Exploding real estate prices, zero interest rate and a rising stock market – the rich are getting richer. What danger lies in wait for average citizens? For years, the world’s central banks have been pursuing a policy of cheap money. The first and foremost is the ECB (European Central Bank), which buys bad stocks and bonds to save banks, tries to fuel economic growth and props up states that are in debt. But what relieves state budgets to the tune of hundreds of billions annoys savers: interest rates are close to zero. The fiscal policies of the central banks are causing an uncontrolled global deluge of money. Experts are warning of new bubbles. In real estate, for example: it’s not just in German cities that prices are shooting up. In London, a one-bed apartment can easily cost more than a million Euro. More and more money is moving away from the real economy and into the speculative field. Highly complex financial bets are taking place in the global casino - gambling without checks and balances. The winners are set from the start: in Germany and around the world, the rich just get richer. Professor Max Otte says: "This flood of money has caused a dangerous redistribution. Those who have, get more." But with low interest rates, any money in savings accounts just melts away. Those with debts can be happy. But big companies that want to swallow up others are also happy: they can borrow cheap money for their acquisitions. Coupled with the liberalization of the financial markets, money deals have become detached from the real economy. But it’s not just the banks that need a constant source of new, cheap money today. So do states. They need it to keep a grip on their mountains of debt. It’s a kind of snowball system. What happens to our money? Is a new crisis looming? The film 'The Money Deluge' casts a new and surprising light on our money in these times of zero interest rates.
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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 20:02 »


What Was The Gold Standard?
From; https://www.thoughtco.com/overview-of-the-gold-standard-1146298

Quote
by Mike Moffatt
Updated March 26, 2017

An extensive essay on the gold standard on The Encyclopedia of Economics and Liberty defines it as "a commitment by participating countries to fix the prices of their domestic currencies in terms of a specified amount of gold. National money and other forms of money (bank deposits and notes) were freely converted into gold at the fixed price."

A county under the gold standard would set a price for gold, say $100 an ounce and would buy and sell gold at that price.

This effectively sets a value for the currency; in our fictional example, $1 would be worth 1/100th of an ounce of gold. Other precious metals could be used to set a monetary standard; silver standards were common in the 1800s. A combination of the gold and silver standard is known as bimetallism.

Quote
A true gold standard came to fruition in 1900 with the passage of the Gold Standard Act. The gold standard effectively came to an end in 1933 when President Franklin D. Roosevelt outlawed private gold ownership (except for the purposes of jewelry).

The Bretton Woods System, enacted in 1946 created a system of fixed exchange rates that allowed governments to sell their gold to the United States treasury at the price of $35/ounce. "The Bretton Woods system ended on August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon ended trading of gold at the fixed price of $35/ounce.

At that point for the first time in history, formal links between the major world currencies and real commodities were severed". The gold standard has not been used in any major economy since that time.

Quote
The Benefits and Costs of a Gold Standard

The main benefit of a gold standard is that it insures a relatively low level of inflation. In articles such as "What is the Demand for Money?" we've seen that inflation is caused by a combination of four factors:

    The supply of money goes up.
    The supply of goods goes down.
    Demand for money goes down.
    Demand for goods goes up.

So long as the supply of gold does not change too quickly, then the supply of money will stay relatively stable.

The gold standard prevents a country from printing too much money. If the supply of money rises too fast, then people will exchange money (which has become less scarce) for gold (which has not). If this goes on too long, then the treasury will eventually run out of gold. A gold standard restricts the Federal Reserve from enacting policies which significantly alter the growth of the money supply which in turn limits the inflation rate of a country. The gold standard also changes the face of the foreign exchange market. If Canada is on the gold standard and has set the price of gold at $100 an ounce, and Mexico is also on the gold standard and set the price of gold at 5000 pesos an ounce, then 1 Canadian Dollar must be worth 50 pesos. The extensive use of gold standards implies a system of fixed exchange rates. If all countries are on a gold standard, there is then only one real currency, gold, from which all others derive their value.

 The stability the gold standard cause in the foreign exchange market is often cited as one of the benefits of the system.

The stability caused by the gold standard is also the biggest drawback in having one. Exchange rates are not allowed to respond to changing circumstances in countries. A gold standard severely limits the stabilization policies the Federal Reserve can use.

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Because of these factors, countries with gold standards tend to have severe economic shocks. Economist Michael D. Bordo explains:

"Because economies under the gold standard were so vulnerable to real and monetary shocks, prices were highly unstable in the short run. A measure of short-term price instability is the coefficient of variation, which is the ratio of the standard deviation of annual percentage changes in the price level to the average annual percentage change. The higher the coefficient of variation, the greater the short-term instability. For the United States between 1879 and 1913, the coefficient was 17.0, which is quite high. Between 1946 and 1990 it was only 0.8.

Moreover, because the gold standard gives government very little discretion to use monetary policy, economies on the gold standard are less able to avoid or offset either monetary or real shocks. Real output, therefore, is more variable under the gold standard. The coefficient of variation for real output was 3.5 between 1879 and 1913, and only 1.5 between 1946 and 1990. Not coincidentally, since the government could not have discretion over monetary policy, unemployment was higher during the gold standard. It averaged 6.8 percent in the United States between 1879 and 1913 versus 5.6 percent between 1946 and 1990."

So it would appear that the major benefit to the gold standard is that it can prevent long-term inflation in a country. However, as Brad DeLong points out, "if you do not trust a central bank to keep inflation low, why should you trust it to remain on the gold standard for generations?" It does not look like the gold standard will make a return to the United States anytime in the foreseeable future.
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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 22:40 »

Fiat Money - A matter of trust.

Definition of fiat money

From; http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=fiat-money&mhq5j=e5

Quote

Paper money or coins of little or no intrinsic value in themselves and not convertible into gold or silver, but made legal tender by fiat (order) of the government. [1]

Fiat money is an intrinsically worthless object, such as paper money, that is deemed to be money by law. To place it into historical context, one could think of three phases concerning the development of money.

First, money itself was a valuable object, such as gold, fur or peppercorns.

Second, paper money circulated, but this money was backed up by holdings of gold, and indeed could be converted into gold at a fixed price at any time.

Third, paper money circulated, but it was not backed up by anything other than the government’s promise that it will refrain from printing too much money so as to make it worthless. Since Bretton Woods, almost all paper money is of this type.

Example
The problem, of course, was that sometimes governments broke their promise. Following World War I, Germany printed so much money that what could be purchased for one mark in 1918 cost about one trillion marks in 1923.

For instance, in 2009, one US dollar brought you more than 6 billion Zimbabwe dollars at the official exchange rate (and this was even after multiple currency reforms due to prior excessive inflation rates).

In both cases the government lost credibility so that it could not borrow to finance large budget deficits, and hence had to pay its bills with massive amounts of newly-printed fiat money. [


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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 21:04 »

The Euro and the ECB; an enigma within a mystery.



Quote
The euro is the second largest reserve currency as well as the second most traded currency in the world after the United States dollar. As of January 2017, with more than €1,109,000,000,000 in circulation, the euro has one of the highest combined values of banknotes and coins in circulation in the world, having surpassed the U.S. dollar.[

Quote
The European Central Bank (ECB; German: Europäische Zentralbank (EZB), French: Banque centrale européenne (BCE)) is the central bank for the euro and administers monetary policy of the eurozone, which consists of 19 EU member states and is one of the largest currency areas in the world. It is one of the world's most important central banks and is one of the seven institutions of the European Union (EU) listed in the Treaty on European Union (TEU). The capital stock of the bank is owned by the central banks of all 28 EU member states.[2] The Treaty of Amsterdam established the bank in 1998, and it is headquartered in Frankfurt, Germany. As of 2015 the President of the ECB is Mario Draghi, former governor of the Bank of Italy, former member of the World Bank,[3] and former managing director of the Goldman Sachs international division (2002–2005).[3][4] The bank primarily occupied the Eurotower prior to, and during, the construction of the new headquarters.

The primary objective of the ECB, mandated in Article 2 of the Statute of the ECB,[5] is to maintain price stability within the Eurozone. Its basic tasks, set out in Article 3 of the Statute,[5] are to set and implement the monetary policy for the Eurozone, to conduct foreign exchange operations, to take care of the foreign reserves of the European System of Central Banks and operation of the financial market infrastructure under the TARGET2 payments system and the technical platform (currently being developed) for settlement of securities in Europe (TARGET2 Securities). The ECB has, under Article 16 of its Statute,[5] the exclusive right to authorise the issuance of euro banknotes. Member states can issue euro coins, but the amount must be authorised by the ECB beforehand.

The ECB is governed by European law directly, but its set-up resembles that of a corporation in the sense that the ECB has shareholders and stock capital. Its capital is €11 billion held by the national central banks of the member states as shareholders. The initial capital allocation key was determined in 1998 on the basis of the states' population and GDP, but the capital key has been adjusted. Shares in the ECB are not transferable and cannot be used as collateral.

Website;  https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/html/index.en.html


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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 21:06 »
Post Classical ( Modern) Monetary Theory.

From; https://www.quora.com/What-is-Modern-Monetary-Theory-explained-for-non-Economists

Quote
MMT is basically chartalism. It recognizes that governments have the power to issue their own fiat currency and force people to use it through taxation.

The government is assumed to include the central bank and the treasury; for simplicity’s sake, we sometimes just say that the government creates money, or the government issues bonds, etc., when it may actually be the central bank or the treasury. But all monetarily sovereign governments (which excludes euro-using countries) with floating currencies operate in about the same fashion.

Government-created money consists of cash + reserves; it is called base money, MB, high-powered money, or vertical money. Government liabilities also include outstanding bonds not held by the government itself. In our reserve system, reserves serve primarily as settlement funds; most reserves remain within the Fed itself, and some is held by banks as vault cash, which is used to satisfy customer demands to hold cash. Private sector transactions do not change total MB - only a government transaction with the private sector can increase or decrease MB. Base money is exogenous money, because the asset resides in the private sector while the liability remains with the government; this allows the private sector to hold net financial assets.

Bank-created credit, also called endogenous money or horizontal money, is created when people take out loans. Banks create a deposit (a bank liability) and the borrower executes a promissory note (a bank asset), and the money created makes up the vast majority of M1/M2 money. (See Money Supply for an explanation.) With endogenous money, assets = liabilities, and both exist in the private sector; therefore, for every bank-created dollar in existence, there is also an open loan that somebody is still paying off.

Banks are required to hold capital assets equal to a certain percentage of their total liabilities (our bank accounts); in some systems (including the U.S.), they are also required to have base money reserves equal to a certain percentage of their liabilities, to ensure there are enough settlement funds. (Other countries, such as Canada, have no reserve requirement; banks just keep enough reserves to ensure settlement at the end of the day.) This is essentially how all banks operate in the modern world. (For a detailed explanation, see Money Creation in the Modern Economy) Whether you view bank-created credit as actual money, or just a claim on a smaller quantity of high-powered money, it doesn’t matter; both are legitimate ways of looking at the same thing.

About 95% of MMT is just about getting the above mechanics correct; doing so allows you to eliminate some bad assumptions right from the start. A lot of mainstream economic thinking is still based on a gold standard system, where MB creation is limited by gold - there are some pretty significant differences between the operations of gold standard and fiat currency systems that other schools of thought have not yet come to terms with. With fiat currency, there is no such restriction on MB creation. There is also no operational need to issue debt, even though we still do so (another relic of the gold standard days). Both currency and bonds are free to create and spend, as they cost the government no real resources to create.

So the big insights of MMT are, in my opinion, understanding the interactions between endogenous and exogenous money; realizing that there is no cost (and therefore no “debt”) when the government creates dollars and/or bonds; and understanding that our main money supply, M1/M2, is determined by the private sector’s demand for loans, and is not controlled by the central bank. This goes against mainstream thinking concerning the national debt and government financing, which is where the controversy always begins and ends.

Other theories exist, many of them. What most of them share is a distrust of the Classic theory which led us into the 2008 financial crash.

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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 16:18 »

Economic Belief Systems

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In this extract from the ‘What You’re Not Being Told About the Economy’ episode of Renegade Inc, Steve Keen discusses the inaccuracy of previous financial forecasts and beliefs regarding the financial crisis.


Quote
Renegade Inc. provides its members with the content and connections that help navigate the ‘new normal’. Finding the people who are thinking differently about the world means we offer an alternative perspective on business, leadership, economics, education and the arts. Support us by subscribing here http://bit.ly/1db4xVQ - Become a Renegade Inc. member at our website here: http://www.RenegadeInc.com - Follow us on Twitter at https://www.twitter.com/RenegadeEcon - Find us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/RenEconomist

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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2017, 20:16 »

Four Horsemen - Feature Documentary - Official Version


Quote
RenegadeInc.com brings you FOUR HORSEMEN - an award winning independent feature documentary which lifts the lid on how the world really works. As we will never return to 'business as usual' 23 international thinkers, government advisors and Wall Street money-men break their silence and explain how to establish a moral and just society. FOUR HORSEMEN is free from mainstream media propaganda -- the film doesn't bash bankers, criticise politicians or get involved in conspiracy theories. It ignites the debate about how to usher a new economic paradigm into the world which would dramatically improve the quality of life for billions. Subtitles available in English, French, Greek, Spanish and Portuguese. "It's Inside Job with bells on, and a frequently compelling thesis thanks to Ashcroft's crack team of talking heads -- economists, whistleblowers and Noam Chomsky, all talking with candour and clarity." - Total Film "Four Horsemen is a breathtakingly composed jeremiad against the folly of Neo-classical economics and the threats it represents to all we should hold dear." - Harold Crooks, The Corporation (Co-Director) Surviving Progress (Co-Director/Co-Writer)

Some, of 7,773 viewers comments;

Quote
Renegade Inc.
Renegade Inc.
2 years ago
We have just launched our KickStarter for Renegade Inc. We would love your support: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/renegadeeconomist/renegade-inc
144
Walt Fechter
Walt Fechter
8 months ago
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank -- give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
243
William Roberts
William Roberts
11 months ago
I've seen this either 3 or 4 times now, the value of it is almost limitless. You can't put a value on knowledge like this. This documentary is almost as valuable as some books.
390
Sebron
Sebron
1 year ago
this movie forget to tell that everything is fake.
38
Power50505
Power50505
1 year ago
Bill Clinton is responsible for this when with a stroke of a pen he repealed Glass-Steagall. And now Hillary is coming for your money and we dont know what Trump is going to do. One thing is for sure Hillary must NOT be president!
93
Marlon Mendez
Marlon Mendez
2 years ago
It's pretty uplifting to see that this video has a lot of views! :D
532
Falling Acorns
Falling Acorns
11 months ago
A revolution cannot be attained by changing thoughts alone.  We need guidance to help us devise plans of action that can be implemented by people stuck in the machine.
59
Alex Rotaru
Alex Rotaru
11 months ago
I don't understand why the dislikes....maybe is just those that are afraid to lose they'r Iphones or yachts...
55
chemerich
chemerich
10 months ago
Create a parallel money system and let the private banks die out like dinosaurs.
60
FellTheSky
FellTheSky
10 months ago
Also, why the fuck everybody always blame on "greed" as the main problem? EVERYBODY is greedy, absolutely everybody. Is the essence of humanity. Everybody wants to acquire goods for them and their families. Nobody works for free, we're not slaves!.

How many people dare to say that greed is bad while they watch videos on their iphones, or watching a tv series on their 50'' tv!, and how many would do it if they could!. There is nothing wrong with greed in a free market, the problem is when the greed comes from politicians. Because they do have the power to change rules, to benefit only a few, to cause poverty unemployment, etc.

The only thing that a greedy company can do to you, is offer you expensive stuff that is not worth buying. But you can decide not to buy it and done.
But a greedy government.... yeah just look at south america. Literally a shithole, and no politician cares about.
62
Rim Oo
Rim Oo
1 year ago
Greed has poisoned men's souls
Has barricaded the world with hate
Has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed
We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in
Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want
Our knowledge has made us cynical
Our cleverness hard and unkind
We think too much, and feel too little
More than machinery, we need humanity
More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness
Without these qualities life will be violent
And all will be lost

[Charlie Chaplin in The Great Dictator]
321
PuggiTheGreat
PuggiTheGreat
11 months ago (edited)
Certainly one of the BEST documentaries I've seen on the state of the world in many years, all without Illuminati shite, blaming the Jews, and without Ickies Lizards. Brilliant and well done to the makers of the video !
46
Kevin Whittle
Kevin Whittle
11 months ago (edited)
Cognitive Dissonance is everywhere you look. Even those who knows everything's wrong argue with each-other. This is how the few control the many. They keep creating bogey men and divide us any way they can. Black lives matter, etc We now police each other with political correctness. There was a time when students marched for rights.. now they talk of quiet zones where you can't express your opinions. The conditioning is almost complete. Only together can we make real change. There is no solution in the political system because it's broken.
28
Æmer0x
Æmer0x
11 months ago
Well now I know and that's only half the battle. The other half of this  battle is liberation, freeing from our suppressors.
18
andrewshue
andrewshue
10 months ago
they might kill trump .
21
Tara Schuneman
Tara Schuneman
11 months ago
Great Doc......This is one that should be passed on to others. Too bad they don't tech this kind of information in schools, and universities...!
15
Arnold Narine
Arnold Narine
11 months ago
GREAT DOCUMENTARY.
EYE OPENING.
I'M GOING TO LET  MY PEOPLE VIEW THIS.
THANKS A MILLION!
2
Chisanga Mumba
Chisanga Mumba
10 months ago
Make America - America Again.
13
Robin Harrison
Robin Harrison
9 months ago
How effective has the war on terror been eradicating terrorists? About as effective as the war on drugs eradicating drugs. However, they've both been successful in starting enormously profitable wars without end.
17
Kevin Wilson
Kevin Wilson
1 year ago
Let us share the Love of the Spirit of God. The Messiah, Immanuel, God with us, will Pray to the Father for us to have the Spirit of God, for a Teacher, and Comforter, Forever, in the bible book of John, chapter fourteen, verse twenty six. The Spirit of Truth will Live Within us. Time is Short Children, learn how to become born again...
12
Der Meistersinger
Der Meistersinger
1 year ago
I'm an atheist german and I think the best financial system for us is the islamic one !
10
Abcde Fghij
Abcde Fghij
1 year ago
Global warming is a joke talk......there is no such thing
10
Michael
Michael
1 year ago
learn about BITCOIN and set yourself FREE
8
Yelling Elk
Yelling Elk
1 year ago (edited)
Lot of truth in this documentary... however, as per usual... it fails to mention one very important thing.... and that is how "we" the average people living in this modern world, are active participants to the overall problem. As It is pretty much impossible today to get by without having a bank account, most workers wages are electronically placed directly into their bank accounts... and 'where and how' that money is used "we" have no control over. When you hear someone say... "Yeah I'm doing ok... I've got a few hundred thousand sitting in the bank"... well, it's not actually "their money" sitting in that bank... it's "the bank's money".... it may be his or her name printed at the top of the monthly statements... but make no mistake... it's the bank's money... and it's "the bank" that actively uses, and benefits from the use of that money.
204
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coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 19:18 »

Money only matters if Capitalism prevails.

Capitalism is ending because it has made itself obsolete.

By; Varoufakis.   From; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/yannis-varoufakis-capitalism-ending-obsolete-former-greek-finance-minister-artificial-intelligence-a8006826.html

Quote
The former economics professor told an audience at University College London that the rise of giant technology corporations and artificial intelligence will cause the current economic system to undermine itself.

Warning Karl Marx “will have his revenge”, the 56-year-old said for the first time since capitalism started, new technology “is going to destroy a lot more jobs than it creates”.

Quote
He added: “Capitalism is going to undermine capitalism, because they are producing all these technologies that will make corporations and the private means of production obsolete.

“And then what happens? I have no idea.”

Describing the present economic situation as "unsustainable" and fearing the rise of "toxic nationalism", Mr Varoufakis said governments needed to prepare for post-capitalism by introducing redistributive wealth policies.

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selber

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2017, 07:03 »
@coffejohn

Quote
Warning Karl Marx “will have his revenge”, the 56-year-old said for the first time since capitalism started, new technology “is going to destroy a lot more jobs than it creates”.

I find it paradoxical that one must work hard for his prosperity, but at the same time fears the same prosperity with less work could becomes possible . It is a distribution problem. As in 1929, the farmers could harvested as much as before, but could not sell their crops, and in the cities they were hungry because they could not buy anything. The money as mediator of every trade, had quit the service. But, without money, it does not work either. Money is for what we work , when it does not matter, then people will not work for each other . What one want  distributed in a different way , will simply disappear . Money will always be our problem, and who has no problems is dead.

coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 11:34 »
@coffejohn

--It is a distribution problem. As in 1929, the farmers could harvested as much as before, but could not sell their crops, and in the cities they were hungry because they could not buy anything. The money as mediator of every trade, had quit the service.--

This leads on to the the debate about "Basic income". This seems to come in many flavours; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_basic_income_models

The two that interest me as a brit our our working tax credits and the new Universal credits now being introduced here. Both address this issue with the newer Universal Credits incorporating Working Tax Credits; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Credit

While Universal credits is targeted at those in receipt of social security benefits the fact that it incorporates working tax credits means that the system could in the future be applied to most people in the UK; at the working moment tax credits are paid to about 7m people.
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selber

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 13:46 »
This leads on to the the debate about "Basic income". This seems to come in many flavours; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_basic_income_models

The two that interest me as a brit our our working tax credits and the new Universal credits now being introduced here. Both address this issue with the newer Universal Credits incorporating Working Tax Credits; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Credit

While Universal credits is targeted at those in receipt of social security benefits the fact that it incorporates working tax credits means that the system could in the future be applied to most people in the UK; at the working moment tax credits are paid to about 7m people.
In Germany, social assistance legislation is almost a basic income . However, one must disclose its assets, these must be consumed before one gets social assistance . There are 3 forms . 1 . -  Harz 4  for the unemployed, 2. complementary Hartz 4 for the working with too little pay  . 3. - Funding for pensioners with insufficient pension . And even with this scheme it becomes problematic because the difference between 1 and 2 is only 100 euros . Not enough motivation to work , not sufficient appreciation of the work . Work loses value and appreciation. With unconditional basic income even more. There is a basic problem of capitalism, every capitalist wants to produce as cheaply as possible, and sell as dearly as possible. But the cheaper they all produce , the worse they can sell. Wage recipients are also customers. But customers also want to buy as cheaply as possible . This brings the work to the cheapest, to Asia . Actually a fair competition, which is also known by two adjoining bakers in London . Our problem is we need to compete with poorer and less demanding people . The constantly increased productivity is our only trump card . To be honest, we do not work as hard as you did 50 years ago . But we need more education than 50 years ago . Learning will be more important than working . High technology makes everything simpler, but only if you master it .
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 13:51 by selber »

coffejohn

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Re: Money. Gold, Fiat, Crypto and the Euro.
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2017, 20:17 »

How to value a bitcoin


Quote
In the first episode of "the bit," FundStrat Global Advisor co-founder Tom Lee explains different methodologies for valuing bitcoin. Lee shares his short-term and long-term bitcoin price targets based on these valuation methods. According to Tom Lee, 94% of the variation in the price of bitcoin is explained using their model employing Metcalfe’s Law. Metcalfe’s law says the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of users on the network. Based on this model, Lee expects the value of bitcoin to be $6,000 by the middle of 2018. FundStrat uses a different method to come up with its long-term price target. According to Lee it is conservative to estimate that bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies would represent 5% of the money parked in gold. Based on FundStrat’s assumptions this would value bitcoin at $25,000 by 2022. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/sai
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