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Author Topic: Realpolitik in Europe.  (Read 2631 times)

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coffejohn

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Re: élection / Th.May
« Reply #90 on: June 10, 2017, 16:46 »
Avec le résultat des élections législatives en Grand-Bretagne, j'aurais cru que Th.May soit acculée à démissionner, puisque c'est elle qui les a instiguées ! Mais non, elle reste et forme un nouveau gouvernement…
Pourtant ses idées ont été récusées, non ?
quelques explications svp ?

Her two advisers have resigned and senior conservatives are circling the prey. May is probably hoping that no one else wants the job.

At moments such as this the conservatives go into damage limitation mode while they consider their position. In practice there is no need for a rapid reaction as government will carry on as normal, Brexit is going nowhere until the German elections are over  and Parliament has no pressing business.

From a national point of view I think the result has been beneficial; Brexit is effectively on hold without an obvious path forward and the Conservatives are in disarray. Labour are now an effective opposition but not capable of forming a government and the SNP in Scotland are no longer in a position to dominate UK politics.

Most political pundits think a new election later this year is inevitable as any pact with the DUP will be fragile and only provides a majority of 2; not enough to pass controversial legislation.

The danger is that Boris Johnson could replace May, we then be deep into Trump territory.


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coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2017, 23:33 »

Power to the People.

London protests live: Protesters demand justice for Grenfell fire victims after day of fury and sorrow

From; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-fire-protests-live-latest-theresa-may-downing-street-kensington-news-updates-a7794296.html


Quote
Protests have erupted across London in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire disaster, with victims and other angry Londoners uniting in outrage at the failings that led to the blaze.

Many of the protesters are calling on Theresa May to resign, after a number of damning reports about the Government's treatment of fire safety concerns emerged after the tragedy. The Prime Minister has also been under intense pressure after she failed to meet with victims immediately after the fire, choosing to talk to the emergency services instead. She has since visited victims in hospital.

So far, the fire that broke out in the residential block in the early hours of Wednesday morning has claimed at least 30 lives, and the death toll is expected to rise. 


Cladding for Grenfell Tower was cheaper, more flammable option

Quote
Omnis Exteriors asked to supply cladding £2 cheaper a square metre than fire-resistant type

Material used in the cladding that covered the Grenfell Tower was the cheaper, more flammable version of the two available options, an investigation of the supply chain has confirmed.

Omnis Exteriors manufactured the aluminium composite material (ACM) used in the cladding, a company director, John Cowley, confirmed to the Guardian.

He also said Omnis had been asked to supply Reynobond PE cladding, which is £2 cheaper per square metre than the alternative Reynobond FR, which stands for “fire resistant” to the companies that worked on refurbishing Grenfell Tower.

Real Politics, Real people, Real Deaths.



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selber

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2017, 01:52 »
Power to the People.

London protests live: Protesters demand justice for Grenfell fire victims after day of fury and sorrow

From; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-fire-protests-live-latest-theresa-may-downing-street-kensington-news-updates-a7794296.html



Cladding for Grenfell Tower was cheaper, more flammable option

Real Politics, Real people, Real Deaths.
I do not know what to say . I also live in a large apartment block . It is also happening that an apartment or room burned, but the fire never reached over . There is no insulation in our house, which is the exception here . Nevertheless, in Germany it is rather accused to have spent too much money than not enough . All that is good for the domestic economy is done . There are now thermal insulation regulations that are more expensive than the energy the save . Nevertheless , I'm not sure wether  and how the insulation burns . Even if I have not expressed it yet - it is outrageous that the fire so fast the whole house grasped , this is not normal . Concrete does not burn. And if money has been saved, then the wrong ones have earned it .My condolences for the victims. If the regulations were now being rethought and changed, the victims were not in vain. A weak consolation for those who lost a nearby human being .
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 02:14 by selber »

coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2017, 21:42 »
Quote
it is outrageous that the fire so fast the whole house grasped , this is not normal . Concrete does not burn. And if money has been saved, then the wrong ones have earned it .

It is stated that the landlords, a local council, had a bid from a preferred bidder of about £11.5m but "found" a new bidder at £2.5m less!

I understand that there are suspicions that it was not only the cladding that was at fault, the fire breaks within the structure may have been compromised during renovation.

I suspect that little will come of any investigation as the victims are mainly immigrants and  low income nationals; just the group targeted in Brexit propaganda.

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selber

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2017, 01:19 »
It is stated that the landlords, a local council, had a bid from a preferred bidder of about £11.5m but "found" a new bidder at £2.5m less!

I understand that there are suspicions that it was not only the cladding that was at fault, the fire breaks within the structure may have been compromised during renovation.

I suspect that little will come of any investigation as the victims are mainly immigrants and  low income nationals; just the group targeted in Brexit propaganda.
That scares me . In Germany this would not be the case . Worse the people had to die . Even worse, because they were underprivileged . Then, not only are individuals responsible but the society . This should not be taken , society must defend itself . And I think that's what will happen in GB as well .

coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #95 on: June 18, 2017, 14:04 »
That scares me . In Germany this would not be the case . Worse the people had to die . Even worse, because they were underprivileged . Then, not only are individuals responsible but the society . This should not be taken , society must defend itself . And I think that's what will happen in GB as well .

Sadly if the victims had been white British working class the reaction to the fire and loss of life "may" be as you suggest; but because they were predominantly non white and often asylum seekers I fear that the reaction will follow the "Mediterranean boat people model".

Already the political classes are hiding behind procedural rules and the time honored process of passing the buck.

While I find this disaster shaming to the UK it has to be seen in the context of a shortage of housing in the south of England coupled with the continuing fallout from the financial crash of 2009; not only have we had massive immigration into the UK but at the same time the money to deal with it has not been available. It`s worth pointing out that the tower block was "renovated" recently at the cost of £10m so the issue here may not be money but incompetence or failing to apply building standards.

Even Germany is struggling to cope with your migrant inflow; while the rest of the EU is failing to house these people humanely; the camp at Calais coming to mind amongst others.

How this will play out is difficult to predict, there are threats to replace May but with whom? I see few credible candidates for the job. One emerging candidate is Phillip Hammond the Chancellor of the Exchequer but he is in favour of a soft Brexit which would not be acceptable to many Conservatives. A second General Election would probably fail to show a clear favourite and be unpopular.

Add to this the fact that we do not yet have a Government in place nor a clear indication of the policy of the policies of a Conservative/DUP alliance and we have a recipe for chaos.
 
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coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #96 on: June 19, 2017, 23:49 »
Sadly if the victims had been white British working class the reaction to the fire and loss of life "may" be as you suggest; but because they were predominantly non white and often asylum seekers I fear that the reaction will follow the "Mediterranean boat people model".


Unfortunately my prediction may be correct;

Grenfell Tower fire: Traumatised survivors offered temporary accommodation in high-rise flats

'They just escaped the worst tower block fire in London and the council want to put them in a tower block,' says sister of woman whose family 'lost everything'

From; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-survivors-offered-temporary-high-rise-flats-accommodation-outcry-a7797026.html

Quote
Survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire are reportedly concerned about being offered temporary accommodation in high-rise tower blocks.

Friends and relatives of survivors who lived in the burned out tower said Kensington and Chelsea council had offered up high-rise hotels as temporary accommodation which, consumed with memories of the traumatising blaze, they were not comfortable living in.

The comments from readers is disturbing, especially from readers of the leftist Independent;

Quote
ken kenn
They have sprinklers in hotels so its useful to know that.

I hear in the 5 star hotels they have sprinklers concierges ( someone around  to inform you in case of fire ) alarms and emergency lights.

More than likely the pricey menu cards in the restaurant  are fireproof too and extinguishers are on hand in case the flambe gets a bit out of hand.

I only hear this as no-one has ever let me in a 5 star hotel so obviously you have to consider it as hearsay.

Income disparity is narrowing allegedly - whereas asset ownership is widening - vastly.

Let's call it Kensington - Kreeping Kapitalism.

Make up the appplicable acronym.

    ReplyShare

0
48 minutes ago
Rosal
So what about all the local billionaires? Are they housing people in their mansions - must be lots of spare rooms.

Council ought to be taking over spare rooms. This is an emergency.

    ReplyShare

+2
1 hour ago
Markcarlisle
Theresa may and all the conservatives only care about the brexit deal and the DUP they don't care about a single thing what happened when the tower went on fire to them families and she proved it when she refused to meet the residents on the 1st time and used the excuse of security  our own prince William and the queen even went to see the residents despite the security b4 Theresa may  did the u turn to go and see them because she was advised to but its to late just wait till the tower gets taken down they will build a new one only for the rich because it will be luxury apartments its all the public who has helped these people

    ReplyShare

+4
2 hours ago
Cynic2017
Why are taxpayers being forced to pay for their alternative accommodation and compensation and not their insurers?

    ReplyShare1 reply

-1
2 hours ago
someone who used to be someone else
My guess is many of them didn't have contents insurance and anyway not sure a small contents policy would provide accommodation.  Insuring the building would be down to the local council.  They probably didn't as it is government policy not to insure, they carry their own risks.

    ReplyShare

+7
3 hours ago
wolfie
This is simply leftist stirring.   They have no shame,  or scruples, and don't really give a damn about the Grenfell survivors. The Corbyn Marxist, Fascist bandwagon will see its wheels fall off in due course.

    ReplyShare4 replies

-11
3 hours ago
superlove
So the survivors are "leftist stirring" by not wanting to be relive the horror all over again?

    ReplyShare1 reply

+7
3 hours ago
wolfie
Are you saying that they can no longer tolerate being above ground level?  Of course some of them may not.

    Share

-5
3 hours ago
Shropshirelad
Stupid comment from a stupid person .

    ReplyShare

+4
3 hours ago
superlove
Jeez... you really are thick as pigsh1t aren't you?

    ReplyShare

+2
3 hours ago
laurance
Put them in tents then.

    ReplyShare4 replies

-11
3 hours ago
Athought
You disgust me.

    ReplyShare2 replies

+8
3 hours ago
Cornishexile
and me.

    Share

+6
3 hours ago
Brexit Isn't Working
and me

    Share

+5
3 hours ago
moonrage
Put you in a muzzle and live in a kennel you Muppet !!

    ReplyShare

+2
4 hours ago
Nickatbh16
So if someone's house burnt down they would not want to be housed  in another house.

    ReplyShare3 replies

-9
4 hours ago
Lord Cholmondeley-McMooburger
Gutless abuse of logic.

    ReplyShare

+10
3 hours ago
Cornishexile
Don't be ridiculous. Do you have any concept of what these people have been through?

    ReplyShare

+7
52 minutes ago
Rosal
What kind of person are you? Ugh

    ReplyShare

+1
4 hours ago
Neil M
Every article on the fire commentable on but not one article on the Finsbury Park Mosque with comments.

    ReplyShare1 reply

+4
49 minutes ago
Frank the Tank
Probably wise.. last thing we need is a forum for a bunch of casual racists to telegraph their bigotry.

    ReplyShare

+2
4 hours ago
SOmenS
Tories in a nutshell, get this criminal party out of government.

    ReplyShare

+4
4 hours ago
ThefifthHenry1415
Superb job of lefties milking this for all its got and now they should simply take all empty properties nearby, brilliantly taking English law back eight hundred years. Mob rule and the peasants are revolting. Pitchforks and torches to parliament, everyone bring hysteria with indignation over inequality

    ReplyShare6 replies

-5
4 hours ago
finnmccool
Is it not time for nurse to give you your medicine?

    ReplyShare

+5
4 hours ago
Lord Cholmondeley-McMooburger
Priceless removal of context...

    ReplyShare

+1
3 hours ago
Cornishexile
Requisitioning is not 'taking' - it is making use of something in the short term. There is no reason it could not be done in negotiation with the owners.

    ReplyShare

+5
3 hours ago
Brexit Isn't Working
You reek of panic Mr Dacre

    ReplyShare

+3
3 hours ago
Shropshirelad
Didn't you use to rant under the name of Harry's archers .

    ReplyShare

0
50 minutes ago
Rosal
You are just the type of soulless bully this country wants rid of.

    ReplyShare

0
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selber

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #97 on: June 20, 2017, 11:55 »
Sadly if the victims had been white British working class the reaction to the fire and loss of life "may" be as you suggest; but because they were predominantly non white and often asylum seekers I fear that the reaction will follow the "Mediterranean boat people model".

Already the political classes are hiding behind procedural rules and the time honored process of passing the buck.

While I find this disaster shaming to the UK it has to be seen in the context of a shortage of housing in the south of England coupled with the continuing fallout from the financial crash of 2009; not only have we had massive immigration into the UK but at the same time the money to deal with it has not been available. It`s worth pointing out that the tower block was "renovated" recently at the cost of £10m so the issue here may not be money but incompetence or failing to apply building standards.

Even Germany is struggling to cope with your migrant inflow; while the rest of the EU is failing to house these people humanely; the camp at Calais coming to mind amongst others.

How this will play out is difficult to predict, there are threats to replace May but with whom? I see few credible candidates for the job. One emerging candidate is Phillip Hammond the Chancellor of the Exchequer but he is in favour of a soft Brexit which would not be acceptable to many Conservatives. A second General Election would probably fail to show a clear favourite and be unpopular.

Add to this the fact that we do not yet have a Government in place nor a clear indication of the policy of the policies of a Conservative/DUP alliance and we have a recipe for chaos.
 

I want to reply here strongly deviating from topic . It is in Germany so that the immigrants also live in districts which are socially weaker, social hot spots . Often because of the foreigners . German media and many Germans talk about tolerance and the importance of successful integration . But they do not go ahead with shining example. Anyone who has enough money to avoid this , has no refugees as neighbors . They demand what they themselves refuse . They are always ready to shout aloud when foreigners are victims of Germans. But they are very quiet when it is reversed. If it is not so in GB, then it is not more wrong than in Germany. But also not correct if it is reversed.

coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #98 on: June 22, 2017, 12:22 »

Macron’s price for saving Europe

From; http://www.politico.eu/article/macron-cashes-in-on-trade-mention-summit/

Quote
When EU leaders’ talks turn to trade on Friday morning, the French message will be: “If we want to save trade policy in Europe, it will need to be firmer, more robust,” said another senior official. “Macron will want to show other leaders what Europe can bring in terms of protection.”

The three priorities Macron will put on the Council table are: a strong push against dumping, screening of foreign investments, and reciprocity in public procurement markets. The European Council meeting needs to “affirm that Europe will mobilize anti-dumping tools when it’s necessary,” the first official said. “Europe shouldn’t allow itself to be, somehow, a victim of unfair trade competition.”

Quote
France has secured the support of political heavyweight Germany and other industrial countries in Central European, capitalizing on a growing sense of unity in the face of the U.K.’s impending departure and wary relations with the U.S.


---------------------

It seems that Macron intends to follow Trump in his off the cuff protectionist policies. This is strange as he claims to be liberal on trade? The claim that he has German support is even more surprising as a trade war with the rest of the world would not be to Germany's advantage.

The suggestion that Brexit and American bullying justify this policy seems short sighted and reactionary. It would appear that Macron is trying to solve Frances "rust belt" problem by compromising the trade relations of the EU`s "
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Lugdu

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #99 on: June 23, 2017, 11:38 »
je ne m'y connais pas sur ce thème et ne peut apporter ma contribution à ce sujet…

coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2017, 16:34 »
That scares me . In Germany this would not be the case . Worse the people had to die . Even worse, because they were underprivileged . Then, not only are individuals responsible but the society . This should not be taken , society must defend itself . And I think that's what will happen in GB as well .

German city 'will evacuate building because of Grenfell tower-style cladding'

From; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-city-grenfell-tower-fire-cladding-evacuate-11-storey-building-wuppertal-exterior-insulation-a7810891.html

Quote
The German city of Wuppertal is to evacuate an 11-storey building over fears about exterior insulation similar to London's Grenfell Tower, according to reports.

Some 80 people were to be removed from the building after it was found to contain flammable materials.

However, a fire official told Reuters a separate report he could not confirm a story in the Wuppertaler Rundschau newspaper that the building was found to have the same exterior cladding involved in the fire that killed at least 79 people in London earlier this month.

"That would be speculative," the official said. "What we can say is that the building is being evacuated for fire safety reasons and flammable material was found."

It was unclear if the material was found as a result of an inspection ordered after the London fire or a renovation. City officials were not immediately available to comment.

Fire and city officials were moving residents to other living quarters, the spokesman said.

I wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg within the EU. Already UK hospitals and hotels are under suspicion of being clad in this material. Germany may be the first mainland state to discover this danger because it is the most vigilant; will others even look?
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coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #101 on: September 08, 2017, 20:33 »
Why Berlin won’t come to UK’s rescue on Brexit

From; http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-germany-berlin-wont-rescue-uk-on-brexit/

Quote
Britain’s Brexiteers have claimed they don’t want to leave Europe, just the European Union. But that statement only proves how little they understand about how Germany sees the bloc. For Berlin, the EU is a core national interest and the only permanent and effective solution for political cooperation in Europe.

However you look at it, the German election will have only a minor effect on the Britain’s divorce talks. Brexiteers would be well advised to focus on preparing their public for the hard political choices to come rather than hoping for a new Merkel government to come to their rescue.

Such a belief — popular among British Conservatives — was false when David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, and it is false now.


Now that the holiday season is over, unless you can afford a Caribbean break, I thought I would get back to Business as usual: Brexit and the Euro - which will collapse first? 

I am developing the habit of including some of the readers comments from these articles;

Quote
Mentar

Finally some common sense on this irritating issue. As a German, I can pretty much support anything said here 100%.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 5:50 AM CEST
MLB

i´m From Denmark.
Thank you for telling the truth, Me and most of the people I talk too about Brexit with.
Have the same view of the single market and it´s companies.
But what UK should have done from the beginning was to be humble and respectful.
The view from DK, People are getting more and more annoyed about UK´s behavior.
The impression i get from UK is that they are suffering from “Empire Grandeur”.

In the beginning I felt well okay, They voted to Leave I respect that. we will still have a close relationship and cooperations.

1 year after I thought UK was a country of Reason and commonsense.
I do not care about what Damage UK is going to take, They need to be stripped from every benefit the EU is doing for them.
Let them Sink, Then we can save them in 10 years.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 6:57 AM CEST




Bastian

Had the EU (Germany) paid its fair share into NATO for the last 40 years then Germany would not have any trade surplus and France would be in its correct place in the EU (the dominant EU country).
America, Russia, UK, many more, even factions within your own EU countries are once again against Germany and consequently the EU. Please don’t drag France and Poland down with you again.
If the EU (Germany) cares so much for what it has (and wants yet more) then you’d think that Germany would have paid its fair share into NATO rather than rely on their neighbours (France and Poland) and other allies to provide the funds required.
There really is no wonder that the majority of Americans and decent people think that Germans are bad people when they rely on the good will of America and its allies to pay Germanys share. Well, the world has become aware of Germanys behaviour. And, as Merkel “virtually” said, “we can no longer rely on our allies (to continue to pay for our defence)”. Unlike France and Poland and the rest of the world, Germany has never paid its fair share to NATO for over 40 years and has never had any excuse for not doing so.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 7:31 AM CEST
Europe means peace and love

totally agree. hello from brussels.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 7:48 AM CEST
Sparky42

@Bastian

You mean the West German military that formed the backbone of the European NATO forces, with the largest armoured units through the Cold War with over 500k troops? Germany has paid its way and only cut back when it a) had to by treaty and b) had to deal with integrating East Germany with all the costs that took.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 7:52 AM CEST
Bastian

@sparky42
1.2% of GDP instead of the 2% minimum agreed NATO requirement.
Yes, I saw you deployed in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Syria, and in all the other places that France went to help.
I am sooo sorry that you had to pay to reunite your own country.
Still, the extra territory gives you another stretch of “buffer” zone along with Poland who defend your northern borders for you.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 8:27 AM CEST
rednax

@Bastian

At first: Did you read the article? Honestly, I don’t think so. Your posts have nothing in commen with the article at all. Further “The members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) pledged in 2014 to increase their defense spending to 2 percent of their gross domestic products by 2024”. Poland defends Germany’s northern borders???

Posted on 9/8/17 | 9:16 AM CEST
rolle

@Bastian: that’s rubbish. During the Cold War, Germany paid more than 3% of it’s GDP for its military. The first time it went down to less than 2% was in the mid-90th due to the treaties (Two Plus Four Agreement) which included a reduction of the armed forces and led to a decline of the manpower (especially in former Eastern units). On the other hand, you’re just pointing out the lowest point/year there ever was and just claim that this is the value for the last 40 years. Plus, no one ever said that Germany wants or has to pay 2% by 2017. There was just a letter of intent for a higher contribution which should be close to 2% within the mid of the next decade, which we obviously haven’t reached yet. So it’s economically pretty much insane to blame Germany’s success to the payments for it’s army. This won’t change or solve the mess and chaos we see in Britain right now. Better put some companies under pressure to sign a letter that everything’s fine…

Posted on 9/8/17 | 9:18 AM CEST




Visarion

The EU have been a disgrace in asking for money in any divorce. There is no divorce. You submit to leave and then you leave after a period. If there is no law stating you must continue to pay into European projects then that IS the EUs lack of detailed law. Not the UKs fault. And why do the UK need to provide a settlement bill? The leaving coutry should be presented a bill and then negotiated. I fully supported staying in the EU but the EU is proving unfriendly and old wounds soon surface. Now I feel its time to leave.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 9:27 AM CEST




Chris

The article said “When it comes to Brexit, all parties more or less agree: Germany doesn’t want to punish Britain and wants a good relationship in the future, but it won’t stand for “cherry-picking.” In other words, Germans don’t like the idea of selective participation in the single market, and they will try to make sure the EU27 remain united in the talks.”

The UK fully understands this and for that reason is leaving the single market completely. Once the UK has left the single market it will not have any influence on it at all. That does not mean that the single market is safe, because their are populists such as Macron who want to limit free movement of both capital and of people in order to preserve high pay for French workers.

Much has been said by people commenting on Politico articles that the Brexit result was based on a big lie being told to the British people. It is worth pointing out that the future of the EU being promised to many of its citizens is an enormous lie too. They are being promised two things that are complete opposites of each other. Both can’t be right – one must be a lie.
This is the promise of future integration and common debt. The people in southern Europe are being promised this, because it is the solution for the Euro crisis. The people in northern Europe are promised that this will not happen and they will not be paying large amounts of tax to support the unemployed in southern Europe. Only time will tell to see who was lied to ….

Posted on 9/8/17 | 10:05 AM CEST



tony

I suggest people here read ‘Adults in the room’ by Varoufakis backed up by numerous references and other books such as ‘The strange death of Europe’ by Murray.

As we saw with Junckers latest outburst concerning David Davis, the EU and IMF have a long history of distorting the facts to promote their own position and of stabbing others in the back to get their own way. They are past masters at propaganda which bears little relation to the truth.

The current demeaning of Britain and its negotiators comes straight out of their procedures playbook..

The EU is run by a highly liberal elite who are more intent on protecting their own position and their own beliefs than in promoting a union that is of benefit to all.

Britain has been the best friend of Europe for 200 years. The continent wouldn’t be the democratic entity it is today without our interventions and there would certainly be no EU.

Good luck to you all as you head towards a politically and fiscally integrated Europe dominated by Germany that is unrecognisable as the Europe we know today as the EU elite continue to add that secret ingredient-mass immigration- that will finally destroy the cultural cohesion of Europe. That will work out well won’t it?

Posted on 9/8/17 | 10:12 AM CEST



Neil

I don’t recall Germany ever rescuing or coming to anyone’s aide.
As for brexit – “negotiations” are totally pointless as “Junker’s personal war” with the UK will not allow any trade deal at any cost to the UK or to the EU. The UK should withdraw from any talks while he remains in charge. That the UK will have to “take on the chin” as will the “EU”.
No sense the UK paying any money for nothing in return.
Tell them they can come here if the wish and are able to support themselves (as is done in Germany).
The Republic of Ireland – The UK should refuse to talk with the EU about the RoI border.
UK should ONLY talk directly with the RoI about the border.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 2:19 PM CEST



Roland

The European Union is a undemocratic bureaucracy. While the United Kingdom is a nation state with elected officials who are responsible to their electorate. This is a huge cultural divide between the UK and the continent. So this idea of “like minded democracies” is simply not correct.. Look at how the EU responds to demands from the peoples of Europe it just ignores them and carries on in it’s ways. For British people who have centuries of experience with parliamentary democracy this is a unacceptable state of affairs. Also historically the UK has always pursued a divide and conquer strategy when it came to it’s continental rivals always trying to balance out the various continental powers to prevent a hegemonic power from emerging. WW1/WW2 were fought largely to contain Germany. 17th and 18th century and the Napoleonic wars to contain France. Cold war to contain the Soviet Union. The EU in this view is a threat as it does exactly what the British have always tried to prevent the emergence of a hegemonic single European power.

Posted on 9/8/17 | 3:22 PM CEST



Neil

I don’t understand the poisonous comments from these people in European countries that wish to remain as part of the EU. I wish them good luck. But we are not forcing them to leave or forcing anything else on them as far as I can see. If they want to stay part of that union that’s fine with us.
So just what is their problem ?

Posted on 9/8/17 | 6:04 PM CEST

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coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2017, 14:35 »

Realpolitik in the UK

Finally signs of sanity in the UK
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coffejohn

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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2017, 14:55 »
Realpolitik in the UK

Finally signs of sanity in the UK

Quote
After another week of unmitigated disasters, it must be obvious to even the most ardent anti-EU voter that Theresa May’s amazingly inept government, as currently constituted, is incapable of securing a satisfactory, coherent Brexit deal for all of Britain.

The debate is no longer mainly about the EU – it is about the Tories. It is about how gaping Tory divisions, ideological, personal, instinctive and prejudicial, are propelling Britain ever more rapidly towards a national humiliation surpassing the 1956 Suez crisis.

Quote
Britain has a Tory problem and, as the clock ticks, it is growing critical. The irresponsible behaviour of many Conservatives at this fraught juncture in the country’s affairs is nothing less than a national disgrace. How can May and her senior colleagues hope to negotiate an orderly exit from the EU when, leaking and briefing against each other, they cannot agree on handling even the most basic issues? How dare David Davis, the Brexit minister, repeatedly try to mislead parliament and the public with his patronising, faux-cheery accounts of the Brussels negotiations, claiming falsely that useful progress is being made? Such breathtaking disingenuousness echoes last year’s mendacious Leave campaign. It is equally objectionable.

Quote
By what twisted reasoning do Liam Fox, Jacob Rees-Mogg and fellow hard-Brexit Tories claim a mandate for foisting their extremist minority views on the majority of voters? Whether or not they backed Brexit 15 months ago, most people rightly fear a 2019 cliff-edge meltdown damaging livelihoods, incomes and their children’s and grand-children’s futures.

The widening, tribal schisms within the Tory party are coming into brutal focus as the autumn political season opens. One reason is the government’s undisguisably lamentable negotiating performance to date, dramatised by the contrast between the EU’s cool-headed Michel Barnier and Davis’s bombastic blathering. Another reason, more fundamental, is the growing realisation that on almost all the salient issues, May and her team have either failed to agree a reasonable, common position or adopted an unrealistic stance that, as Barnier says with increasing frequency, is “not going to happen”. On all three of the central issues in the first stage of the negotiations – the Irish border, the divorce bill and citizens’ rights – the talks are going backwards. The degree of disagreement is growing.

Quote
Britain did not vote to trash its proud, centuries-old tradition of welcoming foreigners, to diminish the hard-won protections of workers of all hues and backgrounds, to turn overseas students into suspected criminals or to weaken the civic and human rights of ordinary citizens in a constitutional democracy. It did not vote for a discriminatory migration policy that impoverishes our communities and culture, undercuts our industries, earns the contempt of all Europe and disadvantages our citizens abroad. It did not vote to give the government unprecedented legal powers over our lives with which, as we know from experience, it cannot be trusted.


----------------------------



At last the wheels are visibly coming off the Tory Brexit caravan.

This attempted coup is now being seen for what it is, a nasty plot by a nasty party; Theresa May`s own words now coming back to haunt her.

To add to her troubles Tony Blair is now openly hinting that he may do a Donald Trump and form his own party to oppose Brexit. He may be a toxic figure to many of my generation but to the young he may be acceptable if he delivers their agenda.



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Re: Realpolitik in Europe.
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2017, 11:33 »
Brexit negotiations not going ‘in the way we might hope’ says former Bank of England governor Mervyn King

From; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-negotiations-eu-talks-mervyn-king-bank-of-england-not-well-deal-leave-european-union-economy-a7945956.html

Quote
Mervyn King, the former Bank of England governor, has said the Brexit negotiations are not “going in the way we might hope” as he urged Theresa May to better prepared for a “no deal” scenario.

Quote
”And I think that you need a separate team who are responsible for ensuring that if the negotiations do break down in some way, and we cannot control that, that depends on the other side. We have no influence over that.

“Then what we are capable of doing is saying, well if you don't want an agreement then we are capable of leaving and trading with you, for example under World Trade Organisation terms. It's not our first preference but we can do it, and we need a team of people who are capable of delivering that.”

Quote
Lord King’s comments came as inventor Sir James Dyson, who backed the leave campaign during the European Union referendum last year, said not enough progress had been made in the negotiations but said Britain had put forward “positive suggestions” that had “not been reciprocated” by the bloc.

“I suspect that we will have to leave without a deal and we will trade under WTO regulations, which frankly, are going to hurt the Europeans more than the British,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“Business is about uncertainty and I think uncertainty is an opportunity and the opportunity here is that the rest of the world is growing at a far greater rate than Europe,” he added


While I consider the whole Brexit issue to be a slow train crash I do accept that May`s "no deal is better than a bad deal" position is both valid and probable.

Junker`s state of the union speech yesterday underlines that the UK is a poor fit within the EU and must either leave or become an associate member.
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