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Lugdu

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Re: Catalans : succeed or fail they loose.
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2017, 23:03 »
they have lost ! (the both)

coffejohn

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Re: Catalans : succeed or fail they loose.
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 17:21 »
they have lost ! (the both)

I take the Chinese view; it`s too early to tell, give it another 50 years. :)

But lets try another version of the topic; Catalans succeed or fail; EU citizens lose.

Go solar, go slow.

coffejohn

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 21:04 »

Catalonia: None of Europe’s business


Posted comment at; https://www.politico.eu/article/spains-catalan-independence-carles-puigdemont-crisis-none-of-europe-business/

Quote
“The Catalan crisis is, of course, Spain’s to resolve. But the EU must — at the very least — help unstick debate by proposing innovative solutions that go beyond the narrow and now-repetitive focus on constitutional legality.”

Spain’s arguments are not only “repetitive” but circular; the majority devised the legal framework and are using it to their advantage. when challenged they assert that they are simply executing the law as it is written; by them!

This reminds me of the excuses used by the US banks when they crashed the world economy; “we were just following the rules”! ( As laid down by them through a corrupt legislature).
Go solar, go slow.

selber

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2017, 10:52 »
Catalonia: None of Europe’s business


Posted comment at; https://www.politico.eu/article/spains-catalan-independence-carles-puigdemont-crisis-none-of-europe-business/

That's true in principle. Both sides have made mistakes. A compromise became so impossible. But not only in Spain threatens a chain reaction. Richer regions are net contributors in each country.In northern Italy there are also regions that do not want to pay for the poor South. In Bavaria, many already think - we can alone.Of course, without being part of a big country, they could not be successful. But the EU makes it possible - participation in the markets of the country without taking responsibility for it. If the EU supports separatists, many countries would consider leaving the EU for reasons of self-defense.  EU - exit , to make the regions aware of their de facto dependence.

Teapot S Russell

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 11:29 »
The tragic thing in this Catalan story is that it will backfire precisely against those who’ve been defending regional languages and cultural diversity in Europe for decades. Try telling a Jacobin now that safeguarding regional languages has nothing to do with secessionism!

Lugdu

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2017, 14:12 »
Oui,; on ne va pas promouvoir autant d'états qu'il y a de cultures !
une culture ≠ une entité politique
Déjà qu'il est difficile de gouverner une Union Européenne à 28 membres (le Royaume est encore dedans), autant il serait impossible de se gouverner à 274*. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_r%C3%A9gions_de_l%27Union_europ%C3%A9enne,_de_l%27Association_europ%C3%A9enne_de_libre-%C3%A9change_et_des_pays_candidats_%C3%A0_l%27adh%C3%A9sion_%C3%A0_l%27Union_europ%C3%A9enne >
Ceci ne veut pas dire, ne pas reconnaître les cultures, ne pas les valoriser… Il ne faut pas qu'il y ait confusion…

*la France a réduit le nombre de ses régions à 9 l'an dernier

coffejohn

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2017, 20:02 »
Oui,; on ne va pas promouvoir autant d'états qu'il y a de cultures !
une culture ≠ une entité politique
Déjà qu'il est difficile de gouverner une Union Européenne à 28 membres (le Royaume est encore dedans), autant il serait impossible de se gouverner à 274*.[/size]
Ceci ne veut pas dire, ne pas reconnaître les cultures, ne pas les valoriser… Il ne faut pas qu'il y ait confusion…

*la France a réduit le nombre de ses régions à 9 l'an dernier

Yes - but. It is not the function of the EU Commission or Council, I ignore the Parliament, to "Govern" the member states. I accept that the Treaty based functionality of the union precludes member states that splinter off becoming new members but not for governance reasons.
Go solar, go slow.

selber

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 05:52 »
Yes - but. It is not the function of the EU Commission or Council, I ignore the Parliament, to "Govern" the member states. I accept that the Treaty based functionality of the union precludes member states that splinter off becoming new members but not for governance reasons.
A fat but ! The EU eats its members with skin and hair. Above all those with euros .

coffejohn

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 12:52 »
A fat but ! The EU eats its members with skin and hair. Above all those with euros .

Yes - But. :)

Having had my fair share of clashes with people who think that they have some form of authority I now automatically challenge their attempts to tell me what to do. They usually back down when challenged either because they have overstepped their powers or are too lazy to push the issue.

I now adopt the policy of ;

Refusing to do something unless made to do it; refusing to stop doing something unless made to stop doing it. By "made" I mean made not asked.


Go solar, go slow.

selber

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Re: Catalans; succeed or fail they win.
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 21:47 »
Yes - But. :)

Having had my fair share of clashes with people who think that they have some form of authority I now automatically challenge their attempts to tell me what to do. They usually back down when challenged either because they have overstepped their powers or are too lazy to push the issue.

I now adopt the policy of ;

Refusing to do something unless made to do it; refusing to stop doing something unless made to stop doing it. By "made" I mean made not asked.
I'm not sure if I understand that, I guess  I do not understand it.You're talking about you and them. Am I one of them? I personally , refuse things even after they have been done .Personally, I do nothing in politics, neither refuse nor stop or do.I do not have the power, but I like to complain.Here bothered me that "Europe must be governed" by Lugdu. They really want that .Only nobody will know who rules.